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Jatoo
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« on: October 11, 2008, 11:35:01 PM »

http://www.onlinenigeria.com/articles/ad.asp?blurb=691

BIG TROUBLE FOR NIGERIANSIN CHINA
Author: Francis Ofoegbu

Posted to the web: 10/10/2008 11:31:02 PM

   I hope this gets to be published because I believe it’s the only way to warn my fellow Nigerians of what awaits them in China. Many of us are stranded in china because of misinformation, our desire to get rich quick, the belief that we can’t make in Nigeria and lies woven by dubious travel agents whose sole aim is to fill their pockets and shove off our youths to any location outside Africa.

  China is a big, beautiful country and the most populous in the world, a good place for importers from all over the world to get what they want. Unfortunately, few of them speak English and that is the first hurdle a visitor must jump to get what he wants in a nation of over a million factories and big markets which will make the biggest market in Nigeria to look like a shopping mall.

 The most important fact which we all fail to realize before running from Nigeria is that there are no job opportunities in china. None what so ever, don’t let anyone tell you different.

 Any Nigerian who wants to reside in china should please get his residence from the Chinese embassy in Lagos or Abuja, because you’ll never get it here in china, no matter what your agent tells you.

I’ve come across fellow Nigerians who were lied to that they’ll get to Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc from china, that china is just a transit point in their search for greener pastures. The unsuspecting sojourner quickly learns on arrival that the pasture is not green, and he begins to lament and regret leaving Nigeria in the first place.

 The Chinese prison is filled with Nigerians with immigration problems and most of them have spent minimum of six months in detention. The only way a Nigerian gets to be deported from china is when he pays $2,000 (Two thousand dollars) for his fine and air ticket.  Unfortunately, very few can afford that and the prisons are filled up, especially in Guangzhou city where over 10,000 Nigerians live. I know of a young man who has been in detention now for eight months and his family can’t do anything about it because they sold all they had and even borrowed to send him abroad. He had barely been in china for three months when he was chased down and arrested by the police.

  The Chinese police, especially those in Guangzhou city have become so notorious and over zealous in discharging their duties that they sometimes beat up anyone who tries to outrun them. They locate, and break down the doors to apartments where any black man lives in the middle of the night to make sure the occupants are at home. There have been many cases where the occupants have had to jump from balconies of high buildings, breaking legs and bones in the misadventure.  If the occupant(s) of the apartment has his papers, the police just apologize and leave.

 Just recently, on 27th September, Mr. Kenneth a well known Nigerian businessman who owns a shop in Tangqi plaza, Guang yuan west road in Guangzhou city was clubbed by local security men who have also assumed the role of immigration police. The unfortunate incident happened in front of Dragon hotel, where Mr. Kenneth had gone to see a visiting Nigerian customer. The security men had apparently thought he didn’t own a valid passport and queried him about it. Witnesses said he explained to them that only the police had the right to ask him for it and tried to walk past and one of them hit him behind the head with an iron club the security are normally armed it, the others joined in. Mr. Kenneth’s business associate and other visiting African business men quickly intervened and the police were called in. they asked for Mr. Kenneth’s passport which was produced and an ambulance was called to rush him to the nearest hospital. He sustained severe head injuries and never got up from his bed. He died on the morning of 8th October. On the evening of the same day, James another Nigerian was also clubbed by a shop owner who owed the Nigerian some money. The shop owner knew that James didn’t have a valid passport and had refused to deliver the goods James had paid for. He opted to scare James away, but James stood his ground and got hit with an iron rod on the waist by the female shop owner, her Chinese servants joined in the attack, though unarmed, Nigerians and other Africans who were nearby quickly rushed in and averted a near tragedy. When the Chinese lady saw that Africans were all over the place and were seriously angry, she quickly called to police who landed in a split second. She told them that she was attacked by James and she defended herself, some Nigerians who were there and could speak mandarin (local Chinese language) told the police that the lady was lying. All these while, the police had ignored James who lay on the ground writhing in pains, then the police did the most bizarre thing, they demanded to see James’ passport and that of the African bystanders who stood there in solidarity. A bystander who identified himself to the police as Mr. Chima Odor, a welfare officer with the Nigerian community in South Korea requested that James be rushed to the hospital first, and that his passport will be provided later. He showed the police his documents and identification; they quickly called in an ambulance and James was rushed to a hospital for treatment. The hospital turned out to be the same one where Mr. Kenneth had died in a few hours earlier. The police asked to shop owner to accompany them to the station. This was all happening around 9pm china time. James received treatment and was then taken back to the police station a few minutes before midnight where he was asked repeatedly to provide his passport before they begin their investigations into the incident. This time, James was alone with an aching back and a handful of pain killers, no Nigerian or African brother to stand behind him. Luckily for him they gave him an option, which was to drop the issue and apologize to the shop owner. If he didn’t, he knew too well where he would end up and no one even knew he had left the hospital. James accepted the “offer” and was allowed out of the police station at about 1am and he quickly took a taxi home before they changed their mind.

 This is just one of the injustices illegal immigrants suffer in china. All James has to show for his misadventure a scar in the back. There are many more cases of such injustices, deaths in detention, broken hands and legs, last year a young man was knocked down by a car as he was running from the police.

Anyone who doubts my story should go to Murtala Mohammed International Airport, find out the arrival times of Ethiopian Airways, Kenya airways, and Qatar air, and then wait and see how many Nigerians are being deported from China on daily bases. You can also ask the immigration officers at the airport how many Nigerians have come back recently from China limping or using clutches/walking sticks. Some come back also very sick from their long stay in the underground detention facility they reserve for illegal aliens. Try and interview them and see what they have to say.

The most common crime in the world every country has to battle with is illegal immigrants, but the case here is different. China is a communist country that allows no press freedom; they have zero tolerance for protests/demonstrations, no matter how peaceful.

 I implore the Minister of foreign affairs to look into the treatment being meted out to Nigerians here; the federal government should please talk to someone in Beijing so that our people are given some form of respect, no matter how small, because we don’t have any right now.

Many of us desire to go home right now if given the opportunity but where does one get $2000 to pay the Chinese government?

 Let’s not forget my major aim of writing this, please, if your brother, father, husband, or son is planning on coming to stay in china, please dissuade him. The grass always looks greener on the other side till you cross over. If you must leave Nigeria, please don’t come here. Over here, we’re always looking over our shoulders; any Chinese man at the bus stop is a possible police officer in plain clothes waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting immigrant.

Attached to this are pictures of the late Mr. Kenneth and the scar on the back of James.
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MorrisBrown
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2008, 08:08:18 PM »

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
lies woven by dubious travel agents whose sole aim is to fill their pockets
Word.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
Unfortunately, few of them speak English
Surprise!  Now we head off to Japan in search of fluent speakers of Finnish!

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
The most important fact which we all fail to realize before running from Nigeria is that there are no job opportunities in china. None what so ever, don’t let anyone tell you different.
Liar liar pants on fire.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
Any Nigerian who wants to reside in china should please get his residence from the Chinese embassy in Lagos or Abuja, because you’ll never get it here in china, no matter what your agent tells you.
Ok, this is pretty much true.  Just about everyone must leave the country to get the Z visa.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
I’ve come across fellow Nigerians who were lied to that they’ll get to Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc from china, that china is just a transit point in their search for greener pastures.
Huh?  Seems it would be much cheaper to fly directly to Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc. directly without the stopover in China.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
The only way a Nigerian gets to be deported from china is when he pays $2,000 (Two thousand dollars) for his fine and air ticket.  Unfortunately, very few can afford that and the prisons are filled up, especially in Guangzhou city where over 10,000 Nigerians live.
Last time I checked you can't get onto the plane headed for China unless you have a round trip ticket, OR a Z-visa. 

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
  The Chinese police, especially those in Guangzhou city have become so notorious and over zealous in discharging their duties that they sometimes beat up anyone who tries to outrun them.
I wonder what the cops in Nigeria do when you try to outrun them.  Fail to outrun a cop in the USA and you'll get zapped and/or a wood shampoo.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
There have been many cases where the occupants have had to jump from balconies of high buildings, breaking legs and bones in the misadventure.  If the occupant(s) of the apartment has his papers, the police just apologize and leave.
If your visa is valid, why do you "have" to jump from a balcony?  Chinese law says something along the lines of "must carry your passport on you at all times".  Breaking the law does not mean you get to ignore gravity.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
Just recently, on 27th September, Mr. Kenneth a well known Nigerian businessman who owns a shop in Tangqi plaza, Guang yuan west road in Guangzhou city was clubbed by local security men who have also assumed the role of immigration police. ... He died on the morning of 8th October.
I'm sure this sort of thing happens in Nigeria. Unfair to our host nation to imply that Mr. Kenneth would have zero worries from "local security men" in peaceful, safe, crime free Nigeria.  Why fly half way around the world to be killed by thugs when you can do it at home?

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
The shop owner knew that James didn’t have a valid passport and had refused to deliver the goods James had paid for.
The outrage!  This is unbelievable!  A person without a valid passport expected the cops to take his side against a legally operating business?  Illegal migrants from Mexico in the USA, illegal migrants from Turkey in Europe, illegal migrants from Nigeria in China.  One of these combinations is not like the others.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
There are many more cases of such injustices, deaths in detention, broken hands and legs, last year a young man was knocked down by a car as he was running from the police.
How many cases of these are among people who are in China and engaged in activity that matches the visa in their passports?

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
The most common crime in the world every country has to battle with is illegal immigrants, but the case here is different.
I'd have swore that most common crime was theft.  Who knew!

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
China is a communist country that allows no press freedom; they have zero tolerance for protests/demonstrations, no matter how peaceful.
Protests/ demonstrations do happen. just not against the central government.  Exhibit A: The anti-maglev protest in Meilong.  Unless you have a Chinese national ID card it's a really, really, REALLY bad idea to get involved in anything political.  And even with the card it's not such a bright idea.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
I implore the Minister of foreign affairs to look into the treatment being meted out to Nigerians here; the federal government should please talk to someone in Beijing so that our people are given some form of respect, no matter how small, because we don’t have any right now.

Many of us desire to go home right now if given the opportunity but where does one get $2000 to pay the Chinese government?
Fix the problem that results in large numbers of Nigerians with invalid passports getting caught and the treatment of Nigerians here legally should make a marked improvement.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
Over here, we’re always looking over our shoulders; any Chinese man at the bus stop is a possible police officer in plain clothes waiting to pounce on an unsuspecting immigrant.
Unlike some parts of the USA, being black in public is not a legal infraction.  If you are worried that the cops are gonna pounce, perhaps you should consider what it is you are doing that has drawn their attention to you to begin with.   

But what do I know ("not much" says the crowd!) You know how English teachers have a reputation for certain activities?    Yeah, holding a Nigerian passport is kind of like that.
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sabresaurus
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2008, 09:46:53 PM »

Last time I checked you can't get onto the plane headed for China unless you have a round trip ticket, OR a Z-visa.

I'm guessing many overstay their visas.

Quote from: Francis Ofoegbu
Many of us desire to go home right now if given the opportunity but where does one get $2000 to pay the Chinese government?

How many Nigerians are living in China and have never been chased by the police? I'm sure there's quite a number.  Obviously, any illegal immigrant living in China will be "chased" by the police; because most of them act too suspicious!

Do they think people who are here LEGALLY never gets checked?! In fact a police officer literally knocked on my door during the Olympics, wanting to see my passport.  Some of my White & Asian friends living out of campus gets checked as well so I'm quite sure it's not an African thing.  The police performs random checks once in a while - if these illegal immigrants had a visa, they'd understand that it's just standard procedure in most countries.

The police are well aware that many Nigerians are living here illegally so that's probably why Nigerians are most targeted.
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pat_togo
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 10:10:37 AM »

Well, personally I believe this is a well written article that serves its purpose. This is not an academic piece where every hypothesis needs to be verified or explained. People in the same situation as the author are not your American or European youngster who is educated and comes here to teach English or work in a company. These are folks who are determined to leave their country with the hope of a better tomorrow, and they don't give a sh... if it is China or Iceland. It is pretty much impossible for them to get to developed countries, and China remains one of the few countries out of Africa they can get to with a dubious "Business" visa.

Now the problem they don't realize, which the author is addressing here, is that China is quite different from your "normal" immigration destination:
1-There is no manual labor for foreigners here, first this is prohibited by law (try to get a working visa without an university degree and two years work experience and you will understand), and furthermore for competing with the millions of gongren in the cities, the pay will not get you a living standard that is worth it.
2-For those who are educated, in most cases there is nothing you can bring to the table that the Chinese don't have already or where you are better than Western nationals and Whites, which are preferred by the Chinese as a fact. Plus there is the lack of language skills.

Yes MB has some valid point but you would be laughed at if these are your sole arguments to discourage someone to try his luck. For the average African, unless you have some unique skills or the money to start something of your own, China is not an el dorado. A couple of years ago when visa policies were less strict with fewer people on the ground involved in trading/sourcing activities, it was possible to come here in Guangzhou with empty pockets and strike gold. This is not the case anymore and people need to be aware of that. If this is not tackled properly this will make things worse even for those who are in China legitimately. Already the Nigerian and African "brands" are as tarnished as it could possibly be.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 10:12:38 AM by pat_togo » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 03:31:08 AM »

..i think pat has some valid points...some of this illegal immigrants are here in the case of wrong place wrong time..personally i understand how easy it is even for a law abiding foreigner to find urself in the same situation...what i do not get is how some are allowed through china immigration points without a return ticket...when i came here i was abit lucky coz then not many blaks lived in gz...but even so i came with a return ticket n very little cash but back then it was easy to make 300 us dollars to 500 on agood day sourcing n guide services from mostly african arabian traders..i rem times i would hire a van n take groups of traders to markets but those were the good days..i rem a time i crossed the hongkong border with only a few hours left on my visa with nothing in the pocket to even lodge in hongkong xcept the visa n transport money...i sat all nite at the koowlon park with a hood over my head on a bench as i waited for papers but then that was nothing coz the visa was a six months so i was lucky..i would go to the airport n ask any african if they needed help n many times i got something to do...but that was then n soon after i had so many people calling from africa n arabia asking me to wait for them book and sometimes purchase cargo n ship..when times were bad we would cook pack and sell african food to traders with some gals..they would cook i be the one to take around and sell to traders...all this was a dogs life but atleast it paid rent for us coz we were not that many...but looking at it now i get how many bright boys break legs running from the police its coz even the most brilliant idea has been exploited by the ones who came there earlier n its not by choice they do not have cash its just bad luck n also the backgroud they come from...in guangzhou we would sleep hungry so many times n wen our families called we would try to sound happy coz even though you told eg ur mum or parents u were suffering u would only give her an early death so as strong boys n gals we pretended to be happy...but we had reason to pretend coz we had hope n potential but for most now there is no hope ven though most have potential its luck or doom...b4 we condemn this guys ask urself if it was u what would you do? its understandable for a person from a sheltered background to not understand but give respect n prayers to some who are caught up but their only crime is poverty..fyi..most african boys n gals who might be having this visa troubles are actually well educated some brilliant more than some of our members here will ever get...i had a gal pal from phillipines who commited suicide coz the school she was in fired her coz they got a back packer..she tried to get schools to no avail when she came to gz her visa was bad n she became a hooker by then we were all still doing badly n she showed me her masters degree n i was shocked...juhdea this is for u..u taught me how to say watch this space n rise..we rose but lost u buddy r.i.p. that was a gal with good education beauty but bad luck see..try n imagine how many r like her now n r caught up in china..dont condemn em..pray n try to help pipo..its sad
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 12:21:02 PM »

b4 we condemn this guys ask urself if it was u what would you do? its understandable for a person from a sheltered background to not understand but give respect n prayers to some who are caught up but their only crime is poverty...

Ninja, there's a valid reason for every single crime people commit in this world, why endorse them?

Many Africans blame their crappy situation here in China to the language barrier, the discrimination against Blacks, etc.  They're not lying, but consider this:

Africa - a place where:

1 - you speak the language(s) fluently
2 - you're not discriminated against due to the colour of your skin
3 - you've had a lifetime of chances to make friends with people with connections
4 - many people live a comfortable life

Anyone with common sense (and not necessarily a "sheltered background") would know that if we can't make anything of ourselves in our own country, how in the world are we going to make it in China?

Please don't jump to the conclusion that those living here legally are those who have never tasted poverty.  REAL poor people won't even be able to afford a one-way plane ticket to China from Africa.  How would I know? Because I know some genuinely poor people.  They spend the little money they have on food, and not gamble with it by jumping on a plane to China hoping to land into a goldmine.

Many Africans living in China illegally are driven by greed and not poverty.
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 01:39:14 PM »


Please don't jump to the conclusion that those living here legally are those who have never tasted poverty.  REAL poor people won't even be able to afford a one-way plane ticket to China from Africa.  How would I know? Because I know some genuinely poor people.  They spend the little money they have on food, and not gamble with it by jumping on a plane to China hoping to land into a goldmine.

A valid point, but I don't think it applies to all "REAL" poor people.  Some people may well take the gamble.  Also, there is also the chance that a person was sponsored to come to China and told they could work off the cost of the ticket in just a few months..thus putting themselves in a state of slavery through dept.  This was and still remains a very common trap for immigrants coming to the U.S. and it's no stretch of the imagination to think it occurs in China.
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 04:40:44 PM »

Believe whatever you want to believe, your definition of poverty is obviously different from mine. ::)

I don't just hear things, I've met people who have deliberately overstayed their visas because they simply had better things to do with their money; they prioritize on the wrong things.  Most of these immigrants living here illegally have a lifestyle that they can't even afford.

I used to know this person who knew a bunch of illegal immigrants.  One week the person would complain, "aww man, this person needs only one more thousand RMB to pay off the fine..." and another week it was another person needing another thousand.  Somehow they always managed to get the thousands - but did they ever pay their fines? NOOOO.  It didn't matter which club I went to, they were always there hanging out and spending borrowed money.

These are the only types of "illegal immigrants" I've met over the years.  So it's really difficult for me to believe all these excuses because IMO living here illegally is a choice they've made.  "Trapped" here? Yeah of course...jump into a hole that's just too deep for you to handle and your bound to get trapped in it. ::)

Give one of these guys enough money to pay their fine and plane ticket and I promise you they won't leave China.  They're going to stay here, party the money away and 2 years later you'll meet them at Windows and they'll be telling you how difficult it's been for them to find enough money to go back home.
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 10:01:48 PM »

An interesting discussion on a similar subject:

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/nigeria/TBGO83PK278FD1PJ2
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2008, 12:02:17 AM »

I dont know what the fuss is about, ...when you enter a foreign country you have to obey the laws of that country. One such law in China is that you shouldnt overstay/enter the country illegally. Now if you break the law and you are arrested why complain??

Immigration laws are laws like any other, if the author of the article expects Nigerians to somehow be treated differently is he therefore implying that if a Nigerian robs, or rapes for instance he should somehow be dealt with differently?

Another thing,..China's immigration laws and fines are not designed specifically for Nigerians. It appears as if Nigerians are the only ones being targeted simply because they are the ones breaking these laws more than any single nationality( at least from what the article says). This is sad and doesnt do the image of Nigeria a favor.

This said though, i do not condone the mistreatment of any human being, especially by government authorities.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 12:06:41 AM by khabzela » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2008, 08:47:08 AM »

Believe whatever you want to believe, your definition of poverty is obviously different from mine. ::)

I don't just hear things, I've met people who have deliberately overstayed their visas because they simply had better things to do with their money; they prioritize on the wrong things.  Most of these immigrants living here illegally have a lifestyle that they can't even afford.

I used to know this person who knew a bunch of illegal immigrants.  One week the person would complain, "aww man, this person needs only one more thousand RMB to pay off the fine..." and another week it was another person needing another thousand.  Somehow they always managed to get the thousands - but did they ever pay their fines? NOOOO.  It didn't matter which club I went to, they were always there hanging out and spending borrowed money.

These are the only types of "illegal immigrants" I've met over the years.  So it's really difficult for me to believe all these excuses because IMO living here illegally is a choice they've made.  "Trapped" here? Yeah of course...jump into a hole that's just too deep for you to handle and your bound to get trapped in it. ::)

Give one of these guys enough money to pay their fine and plane ticket and I promise you they won't leave China.  They're going to stay here, party the money away and 2 years later you'll meet them at Windows and they'll be telling you how difficult it's been for them to find enough money to go back home.

I should have been more clear about what I meant by "trapped."  I meant trapped in dept not trapped in the country.  I agree that many illegals would stay here even if they were given money to pay off their depts.  They obviously made the decision to come here and I don't think many of them would go home either...so really we're mostly on the same page.  I'll expand more later.
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 02:31:22 AM »

......simply because u pay a ticket to china does not mean ur not poor...ur as poor as ur ambition goes....i have met people who are poor but once they get eg 5000rmb they think its bye bye poverty...someone paid my ticket here and my pocket money was my only savings...but according to me i was poor as long as i did not have my own propery ,houses, cars and businesses ..since i was small i knew that so long as i woke up to work for someone else n the food on the table depends with the bosses mood...i was dead poor n my future was in someones hand...
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 06:21:16 AM »

The way people deal with something like NA says depends a lot on their mentality  There are people who just like being the victim and make any honest effort to get out of dept.
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 12:58:23 PM »

Africans were given a new opportunity when China opened its doors to us.  Opportunities are meant to be seized and not abused.

Let's not forget that people living here illegally get to commit crimes in this country and get away with it, because they simply don't 'exist' here so they can't ever be one of the suspects.  The ones with visas are the ones suspected to have committed these crimes and ultimately, these innocent people and their families get to suffer.  Visa holders have something to lose, so they're less likely to commit crimes.

Many small business owners from my country make a living by importing goods from China and the rest of Asia.  I have every right to be pissed off at the Africans who are jeopardizing these small businesses, i.e. if China decides to send us all back home and prevent us from returning, it wouldn't be fair on the Africans who never did anything wrong.  Unlike you guys, people in my country will only be able to use 3-ply patterned-printed toilet paper if we were to go abroad and buy some.  We can't have this opportunity taken away from us.
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 02:39:55 PM »

Unlike you guys, people in my country will only be able to use 3-ply patterned-printed toilet paper if we were to go abroad and buy some.

Your home nation has no 3-ply!   :o 
Inability to make 3-ply toilet tissue using local equipment at a price the potential market can afford?

Even normal TP is so bulky I can't imagine it being worthwhile to  import it instead of just making it locally.

Africa has lots of natural resources.
Africa has cheap labor (cheaper than GD area of China?)

Yet China has all the factories...  ???
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